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Woman's basketball 
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Yes, Philly products and it's not just New Yorkers who have swagger. I also like that they are both catholics (Italian vs Irish, no less, so there's no love lost there); members of one of those generations growing up to which competitive basketball was basically considered an 8th sacrament to many. (I've often wondered if the Bishops ever properly understood that if you want docile pray, pay and obey womyn in the pews, you should definitely not involve them in CYO basketball as girls.) I also wonder how they each handle lesbians on their teams and/or team staffs. Uconn has in the past been accused of that form of negative recruiting/treatment (as well as others), but I've never heard or read anything in regards to this about ND and McGraw, except that she describes her staff's recruiting approach as being centered on speaking to the strengths and needs of their team and the merits of Notre Dame as a school. However, coaching and teaching at a catholic school right now (any level), in this political climate, is tough. I don't know how much people here follow such things but at present the hunt for (and firing) not only of homosexuals but also people who publicly support their equal rights and public recognition of their personal lives has been raised more than a few notches (not due to the views of catholics in general, who are putting forth plenty of push-back; this is coming from hierarchical, institutional politics)

Thanks for the tip on Tara's book. I have not read it, but now i will. She's another of the greats and i occasionally still suffer a twinge of "what could have been" pain when i think of how Ohio State lost her as Head Coach. What is it about Stanford that they can continually come so close but just can't break through these last 20 years to that championship win?

So, will you watch the final game? And, is it just me, or is ESPN working really hard to make coach A. into a likable guy? Maybe/probably he has changed over the years (and i appreciate his outspokenness about conference politics, differences between the mens and womyn's games and other issues), but must the past and controversies always be completely sanitized in the current tv coverage?


Last edited by wrinkles on Sun May 04, 2014 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:18 pm
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I am watching, but not with great enthusiam. I think Uconn has this.

Regarding Pat's son getting the La Tech job, I think he earned his chops at his mom's side. I agree Demoss should have had a shot at replacing Pat. She will make sure Tyler is a success.

I was not aware of the politcal climate in religious schools. I think few outside of the schools are. I know my oldest friend is and AD back east. She stood on day stage Sunday afternoon with the Topp Twins and was very open. I know ten years ago that would have been impossible for her.


Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:47 pm
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no asterisk to the game -the Huskies, what a tough playing team, but how i dread yet another year of "in praise of Uconn" and their possible dominance. Almost makes me sorry that the womyn never go one-and-done to the pros; but they'd still have coach A at the helm. At this point, i don't suppose he would switch but i wonder if he ever receives serious overtures from any men's college teams. Actually, i don't want Uconn to slacken; i'm honestly expecting other teams to raise their game. (Oregon snagged the coach from feisty, little Gonzaga; and i'm guessing that will greatly improve their program.) And, well, there's next season, but right now, i'm all bballed-watching-out; except i'd love to see a game now between the womyn's and men's Uconn teams. (a men's team vs a womyn's is always pre-judged to be an inevitable blow-out; but that is no reason not to host one.)

Yes, the situation is precarious for coaches (and teachers) in c. schools right now. I think that's why i felt for Mulkey last year when she was being criticized over Griner. That situation could very well get a coach fired if she/he were to publicly support an out homosexual player (as well as lose that player her scholarship); and it's all such a hypocritically selective and politically driven "policy" that can be inconsistently sprung in catholic schools.

Thanks, by-the-way, for this thread.


Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:35 pm
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Red, we could change this from a "womyn's basketball" to a "womyn's sports" thread, as the softball tournament is fast approaching.

Also, i saw this article today. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... alt-probes Title ix, which still comes under periodic attack, covers so much more than sports. (55 schools, that's a low ball investigation. If Notre Dame isn't under scrutiny -and it's not- there's no way that list is thorough enough.)


Thu May 01, 2014 8:02 pm
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I think that is a great idea. Do you know how to change the title of the thread?


Sat May 03, 2014 8:18 pm
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That's a good question. I think the person who starts a thread is able to change the title, but i don't recall exactly how. Maybe there is a function for doing so under the user control panel. However, leaving "basketball" in the title, even if the thread covers all sports might be fine because, despite what any mis-informed soccer fans might say, bball is the real "beautiful game". Speaking of wbb, did you see that Cheryl Miller has rejoined the college head coaching ranks. That's another win for the sport and young womyn's mentorship. Also, espn posted this article today: http://espn.go.com/wnba/story/_/id/1088 ... -practices As if professionals like Kim Mulkey or Dawn Staley can't and/or haven't earned a chance to succeed or fail coaching men. But that kind of hiring discrimination...hardly anyone bats an eye. I might get slammed for saying this here, but while this country is full of rampant racism, it does occasionally get called out to some substantive effect (Example - D. Sterling; though blatant racial discrimination in housing for years clearly didn't strike close enough to home to inspire the players to act-up and stand-up before!!). And this country is full of rampant sexism, but that's not only utterly acceptable, it's virtually glorified and as we are taught to know, in the very nature of things. One can be a racist, just best not to be personally, main stream media publicly so (but if our prisons are utterly disproportionately full of people of color, well that's just fine, etc.); but a public, proud and simply realistic sexist -really not a problem.

I don't participate in, follow and study softball like i do basketball (but i did play for years). If i have a favorite, right now it would have to be the U. of M Wolverines. Exceptionally talented, dedicated coach; consistently a competitive Big Ten squad that can challange the western/southern teams and their sophmore shortstop is a truly special player.

I would be very interested to know what you and your AD friend think about college players suing the NCAA and some trying to unionize. D1 Football/Men's basketball are college sports aberrations. Frankly, i think they should be removed from college sports programs altogether and treated as the semi-pro sports they are. Primarily, i worry what paying college players to play (specifically regarding college sports and in the bigger sports picture) would do to womyn's sports programs. However, i do think the terms and compensation involved in college athletic scholarships need to be revised in the student/athlete's favor (with an emphasis on their being "students"). I have a friend whose daughter is attending a D1 school on a bowling scholarship and the time she has to devote to it between training and travel equals easily a fulltime job and then some.

Did you see that the esteemed Augusta National might host a Womyn's Masters in the near future? (I'll give the Old Boys this: Augusta is a beautiful golf course.) I wouldn't hold my breath, but seriously this seems like a complete no brainer to me for the sport of golf in general, which is hemorrhaging public participation and interest -not just womyn's golf. But then, all-too-often what does the preservation of tradition have to do with making wise or even pragmatic choices?


Last edited by wrinkles on Mon May 05, 2014 4:53 pm, edited 5 times in total.



Sun May 04, 2014 2:47 pm
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ooohhh I really miss Miami's SOL WNBA team. Those nights of cheering and screaming with other wimmin in a huge stadium full of mostly "us"


Mon May 05, 2014 8:21 am
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We can't change the title, but Lucille might be able to. It might be easier to start a new thread & then post the link to that thread here.


Mon May 05, 2014 11:06 am
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Same here as regards the demise of the Cleveland Rockers. However, not to go too Pollyanna, i tend to view sports as a fantastic way to bring diverse people together and always loved seeing plenty of men in the stands and enjoying the games. That the NBA runs the WNBA is basically the kiss of death for that league in my opinion. (Their letting the Houston Rockets fold-up pretty much says it all.)The NBA has no desire what-so-ever to create another version of the sport to compete with their men's franchise and i think they actively schedule, produce and market their womyn's game to basically fail. But with independant money backers who approached the game as the leaders in college basketball do, womyn's basketball in this country could become hugely popular with both men and womyn. People ignore or forget that there was a time in the 90's when the womyn's championship game was out-drawing the men's. And arguably the elite womyn's game better reflects the type of basketball the majority of most mere mortal men actually play themselves.


Tue May 06, 2014 7:35 pm
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well said - wrinkles


Wed May 07, 2014 7:14 am
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Dr. Bon on Title IX:
http://www.c-span.org/video/?318055-1/w ... s-title-ix enjoy

i don't know if anyone else out there had this experience, but i played baseball for five spring/summers in a city "boys, my sister and me" little league up until the 7th grade because there was no softball available, and actually was none too happy to switch sports at the middle-school level. Also, i stand corrected about Bush Senior and the first public presidential praising of the womyn's NCAA basketball champions. So not surprising that it would be someone who attends Michfest who would purposefully use the opportunity to encourage a Pres. to acknowledge the womyn.

(Also, saw this article today. Since i'd been wondering here how Notre Dame treated its alphabet of athletes, thought i'd post it. http://ncronline.org/news/people/notre- ... w-campaign )


Fri May 09, 2014 1:12 pm
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Red, i did get around to reading B. Griner's book the other night. It's a quick enough read that i could make it all the way thru in an evening but irritating enough to keep my attention even while constant sirens and public service announcements were sounding off notifying my little city of severe thunderstorms, flash floods and tornado warnings during yet another night of what has become Northern Ohio's monsoon season. (i don't live too far from where a young man caught a three foot carp in the street right outside of his house the other day.) If you want a serious critique, i can give it to you, but my bottom line assessment would be "don't buy this book." It's ok to read, but there is not much depth to the observations, opinions and complaints Griner and her co-writer supply. For teen reading, the book is ok and i would/will recommend it to younger readers because of the content about growing up feeling like an outsider and being bullied, but it's not a very mature work. (One could say, certainly not worthy of a college graduate; but as the book points out, Griner did not graduate from Baylor. And just as she too one-sidedly dealt with Mulkey over living as an out lesbian in the media in college, once again i think she lacks a fair appreciation for how her coach was trying to help her in encouraging her to finish her course work.) Over-all i think, if she really wanted to saying something important about issues she repeatedly complains about, she missed an ideal opportunity (one that may not come again) for whatever reasons -some of which i admit to being suspicious about. However, she does come across as thoughtful enough that i would hope to see her write another book again in 10 or so years when maybe she will have figured out that if and when you have things to say that go against the grain, seriously expose yourself as a gadfly and are speaking out for people who for economic/professional/etc reasons are hunkered down and keeping quiet virtually NO ONE in power (especially when you are just starting out and at your most vulnerable) is going to invite or actively make it easy/comfortable for you to do this.

I did read another book recently that i would recommend to many gals who attend the festival; Barbara Ehrenreich's "Living With a Wild God" about her personal experiences changing from a young solipsist to an advocate of the "woo" (definitely not her term for it).


Thu May 15, 2014 2:29 pm
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Red! i know you're out working in the wilds of Michigan right now (and i hope you all are having a wonderful time). But for when you check back in here, look what happened this day in basketball herstory: http://espn.go.com/wnba/story/_/id/1131 ... born-coach

Also saw this article, which i thought you might enjoy because she acknowledges the proud and exemplary Philly support of basketball over the years: http://espn.go.com/womens-college-baske ... cathy-rush
I know you've already seen "The Mighty Macs" movie, but it's nice to see the film getting a wider distribution now. Also inspiring to see Cathy Rush back in the public eye for her coaching and other accomplishments.

A little more Philly sports news: http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentar ... s-3-hitter 70 mph fastball and more importantly she can astutely work thru a progression of pitches (though, i think her coaches are sending in the calls); but her goal is to become the starting pg for the Huskies
What impressed me most about this article were the comments (however i did not read thru all 400 plus). For years and years and years, female sports sites and articles have drawn trolls and insults to the athletes in droves. But most posters for this one aren't having it. Let the sexes compete, and the fans WILL respect talent.
And, now, after watching a couple of these L.L.W.S. games, major league baseball could learn a fan-friendly lesson from these kids and their league; which is -do not let the hitters fidget around so ridiculously much if you want an appealingly paced game!


Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:46 pm
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