Butch and Femme

[edy901]

contents deleted.

[Parker]

Anyone can be anything they wish -- but one cannot claim to be a Femme one day and then turn around and claim to be a Butch the next.

This is not a slam on people who are neither Femme nor Butch -- but to Butches and Femmes, these are not labels we take off and put on like sweaters -- these are our identities -- and for people like me, Butch is my gender.

Being a Femme or a Butch is not about what you wear that day or how you feel this week -- it is about who you are, on the inside, and how you ID as a lesbian in this world.

One can be a tweener -- between Butch and Femme -- but one cannot claim to be both Butch and Femme, depending on the time of day or how they feel -- that would be incredibly disrespectful to the rest of us who claim these IDs with pride and dont change them with our wardrobe.


So no -- while the Butch/Femme community is not an exclusive group, the identities are -- you either are or you arent and you are never both at the same time.

[Parker]

[Preciocilla]

[MasterAmazon]

And that's why we love you so much Preciocilla......same here..hardcore tomboy all my life, especially since rejecting dolls at age 7, dresses by age 9, and so on and so forth...till I came out as a budding Butch Lesbian in 1981, into Dyke Wicca/Lesbian/Womyn's Spirituality and Dyke Leathersex all in the same year....

Even though I have my womonly aspects, I am never femme...I like my Butch jewelry(yes I like gems and jewels and silver), but I also like wearing my leather and jeans, and sometimes a tie when appropiate too. I like tie dye as much as I like wearing Harley shirts or camoflage. It all depends on my mood. You'll never see me in makeup or growing my nails long, or my hair, except maybe my tail. I do construction, and martial arts, not too domestic, but do it when I have to. Not much for working on cars or any of that. Construction is enough for me.

It doesn't mean I don't honor my more womonly side. I do, with those who can respect that, but I don't easily show my vulnerabilities to the outside world. I'm a protector of womyn, and of my partner. It's nice at times when I'm exhausted or weak when my partner comes forward in her Butchly manner to be protective of me. Most partners though, I've been more the protector, whether they were Butch or Femme.

So, it's NOT something I put on or take off...like Preciocilla said, I've had it since a very young age, and been given alot of shit for being too masculine for a female, forced to wear dresses or skirts to go out to fancy dinners with the family which I fought every single time...lots of tears. My Butchness/tomboyness/Amazonness resides within me, lifelong....and at the same time I honor all that is Female within and without....it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whom I'm relating to....though certain aspects of my Butchness come out with a Femme, and others with another Butch....both strengths and vulnerabilities...and don't forget...there are many, many Femme Tops out there and submissive Butches, as well as the other way around...that part, the sexual part need not be necessarily fixed or rigid for as Lesbians we'd hope for some fluidity. But, to each their own, as long as none of us are so tightly in a box that we cannot get out of it when we need to, showing another aspect to our multifaceted Dyke Beings....
-In Sisterhood,
-MasterAmazon

[marabelle]

original q:

what are you all thinking about butch femme these days? how do you identify? what does this mean to you? (culturally, politically, sexually) to be identified or disidentified with butch femme stuff?

I'm single and trying to date, so these questions are very much on my mind these days. The first woman I slept with was a butch through and through, and I do find that energy very sexy.

I find the machismo that some butches have less fun, but I've been willing to roll with it because of the sparks flying between us.

I identify as granola femme -- kinda hippieish, kinda alternative (love, love 1940s-Jackie O era vintage dresses), anti-materialistic/mainstream pop culture for the most part.

I don't shave my legs, and have been startled to find this is more problematic for some women than it was for men when I dated them in my 20s!

Femme identity feels like home to me, because I pass for straight a lot of the time, and so knowing there are many other women out there like me is affirming.

Femmeness seems really different in D.C. than it did in Ohio. I meet a lot of femme women here who are disdainful of butches, saying things like 'If I wanted that, I'd be with a man.' That makes me sad. Butch energy is masculine, but NOT male, and rocks my world. This doesn't seem to be as true in the black community here. I really enjoy seeing some of the beautiful black butch/femme couples when I'm out and about.

I fit some gender roles -- love to cook, bake, not into sports -- but completely smash others. I am about as far from passive or submissive as you can possibly be. I love to debate, and am an aggressive debater. I am not bottomy in bed, either, though I do find it difficult to initiate the first kiss (damn social conditioning).

I don't only date butches, but I don't find femme energy sexy unless it's transgressive, and even then, it's more I'd like to be her than do her. As long as a woman has some androgynous, tomboyish or dykey energy, she can turn my head.

Would love to continue these conversations in person at Fest.

Mara

[ElifromPGH]

I also would love to continue these conversations at fest

[herewecome]

I am somewhere in the middle of fem/butch. I have always been a mix of feminine and masculine, depending on the situation. As a child I loved playing with my dolls. It was a nurturing side of me that I enjoyed exploring. I also dressed like a boy, played baseball, and loved gym. I think that male/female roles and constructs are ways of describing energy and our expressions of our energies. I think that the words masculine/feminine are so problematic because they have such a hard link to gender in society. Why would nurturing a child be thought of as feminine, when clearly men should love and care for their children if they have them. Why is being muscular considered manly when many women are strong and built?

As a bisexual woman, who is living a lesbian life, meaning I have found my life partner, who is a woman, I find myself at odds with labels because it can be isolating. On the other hand, I am fascinated by labels because the language allows us to explore ourselves, comparing and contrasting. Sometimes it is empowering, sometimes degrading. Some people say I should not identify as bi because I am no longer dating men. (or interested in them). Yet to stop identifying in that way feels as if I am denying my past, which I will never do. I was not in the closet, and I do not have regrets.

My butch partner thinks of me as femm, which in many ways I am. Certain people would probably see me more towards the butch side. The truth is, they are all correct. I know that some people get upset by this idea, thinking we have to be one or the other, that it is not a costume change. But, what if some of us were born without a definitive line? What if some of us are dualistic by nature. Why must everyone fit into a specific mold?

All that being said, what I hope to see at this fest is some beautiful Butch on Butch love! I can't roll with the idea that a butch and a butch don't belong together. In the end, it's all about the love.

[Curious Girl]

i was at the butch-femme community workshop/discussion at fest.
it was a small cold and wet group who met under the tent.
were any of you there?

anyone have any butch-femme online communities they would recommend?

[Rabbit.Leaps]

I was an active member of butchfemmedance.com and enjoyed it tremendously. Super friendly people! Easy to make friends.

I did not like butch-femme.com. The boards seemed to be run by a bunch of bullies. The website is very very large and can be confusing. There are not nearly as many members as it appears since they never ever delete a membership even if that persojna hasn't come back in 5 years.Also I got tired of the pleas for financial assistance from the owner(s).

That said .... both butch-femme.com and butchfemmedance.com are very very pro-trans. Butch women are referred to consistantly with male pronouns and there seems to be a heirachary of butchness with transguys at the top. Traditional sex roles are rigidly enforced to the point of almost being rediculous with uber-butchness and ultra-femmness seeming to be the ideal.

Also ... I was very clearly attacked for supporting fest without even specifically mentioning the wbw policy. That left me with a very very bad taste in my mouth.

There are festies who participate on BFD (and probably BF) but they don't shout it real loud.

I occasionally pop into BFD still but have let my paid premium membership lapse. If you join, look up MzBunny.

[tim steele]

IXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Edited by Lucille Design for BB Violation

[Preciocilla]

[jfoster]

I just finished reading this entire thread...

So, butch/femme isnt how you dress or the things you like...or how you behave, its just "an energy"...that no one can seem to describe without using descriptions of their behaviours, interests, or clothing style (or sexual habits or preferences) as evidence of their "butchness or femmeness".

It's just this "energy" you either have, or dont have?

That would leave me to believe, I do not possess this "energy"...and none of my friends do either.

Some of you mentioned you are "sliders" or "switchers"...meaning, you move fluidly between both...

and then, logically, someone claimed YOU CANT DO THAT!
You can't travel back and forth between BOTH!!!! THATS ABSURD! That's like creating a flying machine that defies GRAVITY!

if butch/femme cannot be described any more eloquently than "an energy" then it seems that someone could very EASILY slide back and forth between different "energies", depending on their mood...and where they are in life.

In fact, that's the most sense i've been able to make out this concept of butch/femme - and it being an "energy".

Unless of course, someone can articulate the differences between a femme and a butches energy, that do not include what they wear, how they talk, how they walk...or what activies they enjoy, ect.

[Androdyke]

Hi JFoster,

I've always used butch and femme as an adjective rather than as a noun. This identity thing is a bit mysterious to me but if someone really wants to identify as something besides dyke and it is what rocks their boat, then it's all just fine and dandy to me. Masculine and Feminine seem to be the equivalent to butch and femme but as adjectives. I don't think I quite fit either definition so I guess I could say I am neither butch nor femme and I'm not sure what kind of energy I give off. I definitely set off people's gaydar so I must be putting out some kind of energy...but i have no need for a label in my daily life.

[Tae]